In discussing issues of purity over lust with Eric Craven the last three weeks, this issue is one that always comes up. In all honesty, there are truthfully very few doctrinal issues that will come up that this doesn't sooner or later become an issue because ultimately how one believes on this matter generally weighs heavily in the decision that they ultimately make. By large numbers today, most folks claim the belief of eternal security in it's various forms. Those that believe in
the classic Eternal Security as taught by the Reformed folk... while I contend they are still in error, they are closer to the truth than those that outright believe in Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS). That doctrine is well wrong and I contend it is going to be responsible for sending many folks to hell as they say the words, "But Lord.... ," only to hear the words, "Away from Me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you." For the sake of intellectual honesty the Eternal Security doctrine as original proposed by Calvin didn't outright excuse sin but simply stated that the person that got "saved" who continued practicing sin later in life, simply never really was saved to begin with. Thus the end result with them would be that the person needs to get saved if they are to be part of the elect. In that I agree... they need saved. There are many things that I disagree with them on but this isn't the discussion for that. So from here out... I am speaking more about the issue of OSAS than the Calvinistic doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints, aka Eternal Security.
the classic Eternal Security as taught by the Reformed folk... while I contend they are still in error, they are closer to the truth than those that outright believe in Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS). That doctrine is well wrong and I contend it is going to be responsible for sending many folks to hell as they say the words, "But Lord.... ," only to hear the words, "Away from Me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you." For the sake of intellectual honesty the Eternal Security doctrine as original proposed by Calvin didn't outright excuse sin but simply stated that the person that got "saved" who continued practicing sin later in life, simply never really was saved to begin with. Thus the end result with them would be that the person needs to get saved if they are to be part of the elect. In that I agree... they need saved. There are many things that I disagree with them on but this isn't the discussion for that. So from here out... I am speaking more about the issue of OSAS than the Calvinistic doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints, aka Eternal Security.
What is OSAS? It is the belief that stems around the idea that if at some point in your life, you've believed in Jesus, that He lived, died, was resurrected and lives again to return one day then that's it. You're saved. The base Scripture that most all adherents to this doctrine use is in the Gospel of John, and the 10th Chapter... My sheep hear my voice... and therefore they conclude that this is it. No one can snatch you out of the Father's hand thus you are secure forever no matter what you may later do. You'll hear often used, "the finished work of Christ on the cross when Jesus said, "it is finished" then that's it. All sins you commited in the past, whatever sin you are committing right now and any sin you will commit in your future do not matter because of those words Jesus said before dying. Then after that you'll hear Paul often quoted... not by works lest any man should boast. That's a nutshell of the belief but those that believe it know the drill and this is a good nutshell version. I'm not hear to defend that doctrine and perhaps there will be those that want to discuss it more thouroughly in what I am going to discuss which will refute this doctrine.
I will use some Old Testament Scripture because it was written for our example as Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians 10. That being said... to save many of you the argument (but then the cross!!!) I will stay mostly in the New Testament with my Scriptural references. I'm going to be using the notes section because I know that even those on Twitter who don't use facebook can read what I write using this method. Not sure how that works when showing in the notification stuff for those of you on Facebook so you might have to check in to catch up on stuff. I will highlight the post because I have noticed that this at least makes the post go across my screen larger than regular post. This is important for a number of reasons guys... and while I'm not foolish and know that many won't agree... that's cool. You want to discuss it, debate it, or just comment on it, that's cool... done in love it'll all work out well!
There is much that can be said about the character of God because Scripture says much and there is your best source for understanding Him. However, I do want to bring out a few things that I think get overlooked in our modern day sermons.
God is many things... He is incredibly loving, merciful, kind, faithful. These are the attributes of God that we hear all about. Ministers across the world herald this message every normal service and even over the television, radio, books, newsletters, Internet, and many other form of media. We love focusing on this one side of God's nature and I suppose that is normal considering that is the side of God that all of us want to be on.
Problem is... we forget that other side of God's nature. He is also jealous, a consuming fire, severe, vengeful and He can pour out horrible wrath. It is foolishness when we forget this side of God. God is love and we've preached that and preached it and preached it even more. So much so that there is no longer any fear of God among the church and even less among the world. People go to church now and they expect a Pep Rally... that little "Pick-Em-UP" to get them through the next week until they can come back for a "Pick-Em-UP" refill next Sunday. Their flesh gets fed but who trembles at the Word any more?
There are many that even teach that there is no need to fear God any longer as the word fear has been changed (cheapened) to now mean "a reverential awe and respect." There is certainly that aspect in "fearing" but come on now... we look at that with a modern mind-set and this is the same reverential awe and respect one has for the President of the U.S, or a celebrity, and even a pastor or whatnot. When the Scripture used the word "fear" they were doing so at a time when if you likened that respect to a king or a leader of the nations you were speaking of a person that could cut your head off if you upset them. Someone that could throw you into a prison where you'd die horribly... just because they were displeased with you. Today... we can meet a person and show this respect simply because of their position and then once out of their presence we talk nothing but bad about the same person we just showed respect to. We have no fear of God. Reverential awe and respect is only one aspect of fear. If any of these teachers were standing before a judge they could give an example of that reverential awe and respect. The judge is afforded that respect because of his or her position. But if that judge can smack the gavel down and pronounce a death sentence on them at their own whim... that reverential awe and respect is going to have an added flavor to it. Knee knocking, wet your pants, kind of fear as their mouth goes dry once that judge starts to speak when pronouncing that sentence on them. When you stand before the President... you are awed. When you stand before a king or queen... you are awed. When you stand before God... you will be awed as well but like the many instances in Scripture... there will be a fear that drops you to your knees as like with Isaiah... you realize how unclean you really are while in the presence of PURE holiness.
I remember back when I was a Military Policeman in the U.S. Army. We always knew when a warning was all that a person needed because while we were dealing with them they were sufficiently afraid. They knew our authority and they knew that we had the power to alter the course of their lives in a mere moment in the decision that we made. But then there were the ones that showed no fear... some even defiant. There were the ones that we knew that we would have to apprehend. These were the ones that were dangerous to the structure of the Military because that structure was built around authority and they thumbed their nose at the foundational block that was necessary for the institution to operate. There was forgiveness for the fearful but only judgment for those that were defiant.
Luke 12:4 ¶"I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
We can have that reverential awe and respect for men... that is natural and even right. But God is not the same and Jesus makes this clear. The Greek word for fear hear means much more than simply reverential awe and respect. It means "to frighten" and as if that wasn't enough it means to "frighten exceedingly". In other words... have that knee knocking, dry mouth, wet your pants, kind of fear because God's authority makes man's authority look pitifully small.
Paul uses that same word here as well.
Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, butfear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
This goes beyond simply "reverential awe and respect" and we need to understand how we've watered down the message to the point where we no longer have a healthy fear of God. Am I telling you this so that you will be afraid? I would have to honestly say YES! Fear God. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. But never discount the dual nature of God. He is kind... yet He is equally severe. He is God.
I will talk again about this passage in Romans but it is very clear in what it says. Fear Him because just like God did with the Jewish folk... He will do to the Gentile folks too if one does not continue in God's kindness.
It is also very important for all of us to remember. God NEVER changes. His ways are more steady than a rock planted deep in the soil. His covenant with man has changed a number of times over the years but God Himself... He never changes. Those that think the cross somehow totally changed and softened God are folks that have no real clue of God's character at all.
Yes, Old Testament sure enough. Remember a couple of things. First, as I said in the note before... God has several times changed up His covenant with man but God Himself never changes. How God dealt with and thinks about sin in the past is how God deals with and thinks about sin today and in the future. HIS WAYS remain every bit the same.
Also keep in mind 1 Corinthians 10 and what Paul tells the church:
1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, that we should not crave evil things, as they also craved.
7 And do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8 Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9 Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Folks would fare much better if you took the teachings found in the Old Testament Scripture times more serious. If I post an Old Testament passage about your prosperity then you crawl all over that claiming it with every breath. Yet... when it comes to this many holler... OLD COVENANT!!! THERE'S THE CROSS! The cross DID NOT change God nor God's ways.
Ezekiel 18:21 ¶"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.22 "All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
There aren't many folks today that wouldn't read this passage and rejoice! All of us can understand this because all of us were wicked. We embrace this. But... Ezekiel continues speaking for God here....
Ezekiel 18:24 ¶"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.25 "Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not right.´ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?26 "When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die.
When a righteous man turns from righteousness to wickedness... and dies in that iniquity then for that iniquity he will die.
There is no more clear a passage than this that makes it clear that a righteous man CAN turn from righteousness back to sin as well as it speaks clearly of this mans eternal state.
I am not going to add a boat-load of commentary to this because I know that many that disagree with me here are just going to say, "the cross Ken!" However... those that accept the Scripture in totality can read this clearly and see equally clearly what it says. However, I will now show this very same thing in the New Testament Scripture.
There are many passages that I can pick but I am going to focus on one very important passage so that I can spend some time on the detail.
Matthew 18:21 ¶Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a certain king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 "And when he had begun to settle them, there was brought to him one who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 "The slave therefore falling down, prostrated himself before him, saying, `Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.´
27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, `Pay back what you owe.´
29 "So his fellow slave fell down and began to entreat him, saying, `Have patience with me and I will repay you.
30 "He was unwilling however, but went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, `You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you entreated me.
33 `Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, even as I had mercy on you?´
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "So shall My heavenly Father also do to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."
For just a second forget what you think you know and believe and simply answer these questions honestly and in accord to the text. Not what you think it means nor what you want it to mean. Simply... what does it say?
1. What does this story represent?
2. Who does the king in this parable represent?
3. Who does the servant in this parable represent?
4. Did the king forgive the servant a debt the servant couldn't possibly pay?
5. Did the servant then refuse to continue in the same kindness that the king showed him?
6. Did the king call the servant back to him and revoke the mercy and forgiveness freely given and pronounce an even harsher punishment than what was originally doled out before offering forgiveness of the debt?
7. If the debt was impossible for the man to pay back how possible would it be to pay while being tortured in prison?
8. Who was Jesus speaking to when He told this parable?
9. What would happen to the disciples if they too didn't forgive their brother from their heart?
10. What will happen to you if you don't forgive your brother from your heart?
Now please understand why we often talk to you about the importance... even the must... of forgiving others as God forgave you.
First Things First... GOD'S CHARACTER
There is much that can be said about the character of God because Scripture says much and there is your best source for understanding Him. However, I do want to bring out a few things that I think get overlooked in our modern day sermons.
God is many things... He is incredibly loving, merciful, kind, faithful. These are the attributes of God that we hear all about. Ministers across the world herald this message every normal service and even over the television, radio, books, newsletters, Internet, and many other form of media. We love focusing on this one side of God's nature and I suppose that is normal considering that is the side of God that all of us want to be on.
Problem is... we forget that other side of God's nature. He is also jealous, a consuming fire, severe, vengeful and He can pour out horrible wrath. It is foolishness when we forget this side of God. God is love and we've preached that and preached it and preached it even more. So much so that there is no longer any fear of God among the church and even less among the world. People go to church now and they expect a Pep Rally... that little "Pick-Em-UP" to get them through the next week until they can come back for a "Pick-Em-UP" refill next Sunday. Their flesh gets fed but who trembles at the Word any more?
There are many that even teach that there is no need to fear God any longer as the word fear has been changed (cheapened) to now mean "a reverential awe and respect." There is certainly that aspect in "fearing" but come on now... we look at that with a modern mind-set and this is the same reverential awe and respect one has for the President of the U.S, or a celebrity, and even a pastor or whatnot. When the Scripture used the word "fear" they were doing so at a time when if you likened that respect to a king or a leader of the nations you were speaking of a person that could cut your head off if you upset them. Someone that could throw you into a prison where you'd die horribly... just because they were displeased with you. Today... we can meet a person and show this respect simply because of their position and then once out of their presence we talk nothing but bad about the same person we just showed respect to. We have no fear of God. Reverential awe and respect is only one aspect of fear. If any of these teachers were standing before a judge they could give an example of that reverential awe and respect. The judge is afforded that respect because of his or her position. But if that judge can smack the gavel down and pronounce a death sentence on them at their own whim... that reverential awe and respect is going to have an added flavor to it. Knee knocking, wet your pants, kind of fear as their mouth goes dry once that judge starts to speak when pronouncing that sentence on them. When you stand before the President... you are awed. When you stand before a king or queen... you are awed. When you stand before God... you will be awed as well but like the many instances in Scripture... there will be a fear that drops you to your knees as like with Isaiah... you realize how unclean you really are while in the presence of PURE holiness.
I remember back when I was a Military Policeman in the U.S. Army. We always knew when a warning was all that a person needed because while we were dealing with them they were sufficiently afraid. They knew our authority and they knew that we had the power to alter the course of their lives in a mere moment in the decision that we made. But then there were the ones that showed no fear... some even defiant. There were the ones that we knew that we would have to apprehend. These were the ones that were dangerous to the structure of the Military because that structure was built around authority and they thumbed their nose at the foundational block that was necessary for the institution to operate. There was forgiveness for the fearful but only judgment for those that were defiant.
Luke 12:4 ¶"I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
We can have that reverential awe and respect for men... that is natural and even right. But God is not the same and Jesus makes this clear. The Greek word for fear hear means much more than simply reverential awe and respect. It means "to frighten" and as if that wasn't enough it means to "frighten exceedingly". In other words... have that knee knocking, dry mouth, wet your pants, kind of fear because God's authority makes man's authority look pitifully small.
Paul uses that same word here as well.
Romans 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, butfear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
This goes beyond simply "reverential awe and respect" and we need to understand how we've watered down the message to the point where we no longer have a healthy fear of God. Am I telling you this so that you will be afraid? I would have to honestly say YES! Fear God. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. But never discount the dual nature of God. He is kind... yet He is equally severe. He is God.
I will talk again about this passage in Romans but it is very clear in what it says. Fear Him because just like God did with the Jewish folk... He will do to the Gentile folks too if one does not continue in God's kindness.
It is also very important for all of us to remember. God NEVER changes. His ways are more steady than a rock planted deep in the soil. His covenant with man has changed a number of times over the years but God Himself... He never changes. Those that think the cross somehow totally changed and softened God are folks that have no real clue of God's character at all.
EZEKIEL 18
Yes, Old Testament sure enough. Remember a couple of things. First, as I said in the note before... God has several times changed up His covenant with man but God Himself never changes. How God dealt with and thinks about sin in the past is how God deals with and thinks about sin today and in the future. HIS WAYS remain every bit the same.
Also keep in mind 1 Corinthians 10 and what Paul tells the church:
1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, that we should not crave evil things, as they also craved.
7 And do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8 Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9 Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Folks would fare much better if you took the teachings found in the Old Testament Scripture times more serious. If I post an Old Testament passage about your prosperity then you crawl all over that claiming it with every breath. Yet... when it comes to this many holler... OLD COVENANT!!! THERE'S THE CROSS! The cross DID NOT change God nor God's ways.
Ezekiel 18:21 ¶"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.22 "All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
There aren't many folks today that wouldn't read this passage and rejoice! All of us can understand this because all of us were wicked. We embrace this. But... Ezekiel continues speaking for God here....
Ezekiel 18:24 ¶"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.25 "Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not right.´ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?26 "When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die.
When a righteous man turns from righteousness to wickedness... and dies in that iniquity then for that iniquity he will die.
There is no more clear a passage than this that makes it clear that a righteous man CAN turn from righteousness back to sin as well as it speaks clearly of this mans eternal state.
I am not going to add a boat-load of commentary to this because I know that many that disagree with me here are just going to say, "the cross Ken!" However... those that accept the Scripture in totality can read this clearly and see equally clearly what it says. However, I will now show this very same thing in the New Testament Scripture.
WHAT DID JESUS SAY
There are many passages that I can pick but I am going to focus on one very important passage so that I can spend some time on the detail.
Matthew 18:21 ¶Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a certain king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 "And when he had begun to settle them, there was brought to him one who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 "The slave therefore falling down, prostrated himself before him, saying, `Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.´
27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, `Pay back what you owe.´
29 "So his fellow slave fell down and began to entreat him, saying, `Have patience with me and I will repay you.
30 "He was unwilling however, but went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, `You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you entreated me.
33 `Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, even as I had mercy on you?´
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "So shall My heavenly Father also do to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."
For just a second forget what you think you know and believe and simply answer these questions honestly and in accord to the text. Not what you think it means nor what you want it to mean. Simply... what does it say?
1. What does this story represent?
2. Who does the king in this parable represent?
3. Who does the servant in this parable represent?
4. Did the king forgive the servant a debt the servant couldn't possibly pay?
5. Did the servant then refuse to continue in the same kindness that the king showed him?
6. Did the king call the servant back to him and revoke the mercy and forgiveness freely given and pronounce an even harsher punishment than what was originally doled out before offering forgiveness of the debt?
7. If the debt was impossible for the man to pay back how possible would it be to pay while being tortured in prison?
8. Who was Jesus speaking to when He told this parable?
9. What would happen to the disciples if they too didn't forgive their brother from their heart?
10. What will happen to you if you don't forgive your brother from your heart?
Now please understand why we often talk to you about the importance... even the must... of forgiving others as God forgave you.
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